An interview with Exorcist, Fr. Athanasius, from the research for the new book:
Exorcising Halloween: A Guide to Sanctifying the Season

Get the Book here!

A lot of Catholics seem to succumb to a spirit of fear at Halloween, almost to the point of not wanting to have anything to do with it.

There is an exaggerated reaction you find amongst Catholics against Halloween because they think it’s of Druidic origins and this is all Pagan but it’s Catholic in its essence. But I don’t think we do ourselves any favors by demonizing Halloween because that’s giving up.

I wouldn’t give too much importance to to the externalization of the occult in the culture. It’s just one more way of sinning, that’s all that matters.

We don’t even have to do anything for Halloween, but we ought not cede the real estate and the symbolism to the bonehead satanists. So we ought not give it an importance that it doesn’t deserve.

There are some traditions of “mocking the devil” at Halloween. How does this factor in to the focus we should be having?

The Pantheon was a Pagan temple when the Church took possession of it in Rome. When it was exorcised, they could hear the screams of the demons being cast out. Then it was reconsecrated reconsecrated as the Church of All Saints, even though we call it the Pantheon still. So this was kind of the core of the understanding of everything surrounding All Saints and All Souls that the Church is triumphant because Christ is triumphant and death has no hold on us. Therefore, because we’re still confronted with death and Satan, rather than fear we mock.

The dressing up like demons and ghosts was a Catholic way of mocking Satan and death and sin because this is all rooted in our understanding also of the consecration of the Pantheon as the Church of All Saints. 

Does this mocking of the devil ever present itself as useful in an exorcism?

When I’m exercising demons and Satan is threatening me, I just chuckle; it deflates him so much because of their exaggerated self-love. In one case the demon said, “I’m going to come to you at night as a serpent in your bed and I’m gonna attack you.” I just laugh and I pat him, the possessed person, on the head and say, “Thank you, thank you. If that’s God’s will then have at it. I’ll give Him more glory by doing His will.” That drives them nuts. So there is a power in scorn that the Church has understood.

So we don’t fear we trust and then we chuckle at the enemy. We recognize, we respect the power of Satan but we don’t respect him.

What can you say about the history of a lot of the practices that we see today at Halloween?

For Catholics from Ireland and Scotland, it was almost like a triduum, on 31st,  1st, and 2nd. The children would go from house to house with lanterns, but they’re made of gourds. When they came to America pumpkins were so much easier to use. So, they would make these lanterns and go from house to house and then trick or treat. The idea was that each home gave the children a list of their faithful departed from their family from this last year and the children pray for them, but you also have to give us some sweets – that was the treat. The trick if they didn’t if they weren’t given something then there would be some mischievous trick played on the household. And then they would they would gather the names and pray for those souls in Purgatory, so it was all about emptying Purgatory. The children even understood this, and it became a joyful mission.

Like anything, just like Christmas celebrations, once you start to lose a spiritual sensitivity and a Catholic understanding of things – it’s just a question of time before the reason for things are lost. So Christmas, thanks to the Freemasons, who owned Coca-Cola and took Father Christmas, who was dressed in green, and they made him red and white because that was Coke’s color. The idea of Santa wearing red came from a Freemason because he was trying to sell coke. So they took Saint Nicholas and paganized him, basically. That’s exactly what happened with Halloween. What we have today is a paganized notion of it. It wasn’t immediate, it was more a loss of the purpose, but then the external practice is still there. When when we lose the purpose Satan will take over. He loves symbols because he’s a pure spirit and loves certain incarnations as his revenge and that’s why. Satan loves symbols and because he’s so OCD, these become little victories…so we’ve got Easter bunnies.

Have the modern occult movements done the same thing with Halloween?

The Satanists in the ‘60s basically took over Halloween and re-engineered it’s genesis.
What do we know about Druidism? We knew that it existed as the religion of Ireland and Scotland and England but it was squashed in the 1st century; the Romans left no vestiges of it, and then what was there was then later destroyed by by Christianity. So nobody knows anything about it except for the name of the religion and that they had a certain priestly caste. Everything that we think we know about it was reinvented.

Halloween fits into an occultic calendar of a sort. What can you say about that?

They invented their own goofy liturgical year, which is a mockery of the Catholic liturgical calendar. So we’ve got our ordo and they’ve got their ordo, but theirs is reactive. So they’ll be doing all sorts of fasting and all sorts of rituals throughout October in preparation for this invented feast of Samhain, which never existed, but they just invented it. Then Satanists will do their consecrations often on the 30th and the 31st. But again this is just the same thing, Satan says, “Yeah “’ll take it, your own damnation, your consecration to me. I’ll take it. Do you want to work for me? Fine, that’s fine, “’ll take it. I don’t care what days you do it on.” 

You mentioned the piñata as good example of the use of symbols.

Yes, what the Mexicans do in Advent, where they have the piñata, the kids bash it with the sticks and then the candies fall out. A pinata originally was a globe with 7 horns. This originated with the Spanish missionaries in Mexico, where they used the piñata as a means of catechesis. The piñata is the manifestation of of satan’s Kingdom and each of the seven horns is one of the capital sins. By beating it, by beating sin, you’re rewarded in this life and the next, and that’s what the candies are, the sweets that fall out and the toys. So my point in saying that is just like Halloween, we don’t give up the authentic the expressions of Halloween.

So, if we keep the authentic expressions and the authentic meanings of Halloween customs, there should be anything to worry about in the celebrations, correct?

Kids ought to be kids, ought to be making fun of these of these occultic idiots and and collecting names to pray for in Purgatory. That’s what it was all about, and they made it fun! It’s a win-win situation: the kids are mocking Satan, they’re proud to be Catholic, they’re collecting names of the faithful departed, and then they have the joy of their parties and their sweets and everything.

With the fear factor high, and the occult presence noted, people start to wonder about curses. What can you say about that? Do we need to worry?

Why worry about curses? How does that help anything right? But curses are real and effective. It depends on who who made it and there are many contingencies that determine the efficacy of curses: what is the relation of the person who has authority over the person, that’s going to be very efficacious, almost independent of my spiritual situation. But my spiritual situation is going to determine some of its efficacy.

My own grandfather was a Freemason. They curse the different parts of the body. Though my siblings don’t have the health problems I have, they have other problems that are probably from the Masonic curses of my grandfather. We all have intestinal problems. So that’s because the Masons, they curse particular organs during their their ascendancy. So for each degree, there are particular organs that are addressed in terms of curses. 

So, yeah, curses are real, they’re efficacious. Why live in fear? That’s not going to help anybody. Further, God allows any suffering that flows from it…and suffering is a currency not a curse for us. So we turn it on its head and it becomes a source of sanctification in union with Christ Crucified.

Curses don’t work, you said, unless our spiritual situation is conducive for them to work. Can you explain that more?

So, no, I don’t think you need to worry about curses. For curses to work there has to be, what does Proverbs say, “The bird can’t land unless it has something to land on.” So there has to be an open door somewhere. 

The question of where’s the open door can be much more important than the curse. When people talk to me about having generational demons in their family, I say, “What’s your point?” If they ask, “Do I need an exorcism?” I say, “No, you gotta change your life!” So how do we overcome generational demons? What are generational demons doing? They’re trying to get us to entice us to sin, and there’s going to be a certain pattern of sinfulness in one’s family. Fine, not a problem, just overcome it with virtue.

In this clash of cultures, light and dark – would one of the things that could be emphasized as part of the devotional practices surrounding All Saints be a renewed desire to amend our lives? 

Absolutely. It’s all about conversion.

So, maybe, October 31st could be a moment of: there’s a spiritual warfare, so I need to shut all these doors, I need to amend my life and deepen my faith, accept my suffering, in order to join the Saints who we honor the next day. By doing so, we block any activity from the demon. So I guess more than worrying about what the diabolical is up to at Halloween, it’s a moment to reflect on the state of our souls more than on anything else.

We need to be solution oriented. … Saint Francis de Sales says that after venial sin, the worst evil that can befall us is anxiety. Worry has no place in the spiritual life. Find worry in the Catholic Catechism as a virtue! Anxiety becomes a false religion because it consumes us just like Our Lord wants to consume us. So you can’t be consumed by two opposites. We’re gonna make a choice and worry has no place in this.

One of the other things I want to emphasize in the book, which I've already done some research on and found very enlightening, is, with Christ the King being positioned near All Saints, All Saints itself, the Vigil, and the Day, and All Souls: the prayers, the liturgical emphasis, the readings – it all speaks of this great triumph of Christ, triumph of the Saints, triumph of light and grace. I feel like that needs to be emphasized, that needs to be rediscovered, because it’s so powerful. Then that would influence the whole cultural celebration around it.

Exactly. Then back to that anxiety: this would crush any anxiety we feel.

One of the things that disturbs Catholic families is the cultural manifestations. You go to Lowes and you see the hamsa hand symbol right there in the Lowes decorations with all these witches and things. Then you drive through a neighborhood and you see the the witch circles in people’s front yards. How should we regard that? Just pray for them, see it as an isolated manifestation?

Where is the open door? So go back right to that. If there is any open door in your own soul. Christ is victorious. Why fear? Why anxiety? I don’t understand this reaction in which people say, “Oh, but they’re evil!” Yeah, well, you’ve got somebody using birth control next door, they’re evil too! So what are you gonna do? Worry? How does that help you?

That’s a good point. I think that sometimes, if we let the demonic be the thing we fear, then we don’t actually fear sin.

Exactly, because we’re consumed by that, we’re not consumed by Christ.

In fact, the grimoire of the witches tell them to make sure the person you’re cursing knows they’re cursed so that their fear of the curse will augment the effects of the curse. True love casts out all fear. So many people that are afflicted have some trauma that was an open door. Why? Because in a trauma, in a terrible fear, there can be a second of despair. That’s all that even needs: fear.

In the traditional Rite of Exorcism, there’s this constant repetition of the demon trying to strike fear into the possessed person.

Exactly.

That could be one of the keys to focus on in this book, what you’re saying, have no anxiety about what the demonic and the occult are doing, have no fear of them.

Mock them …as you laugh at this idiocy that they do.

My point is that, notice how, because of our fallenness, and when we stop presenting the truth of these Catholic customs, Satan takes it over. That’s why we have to recover what is ours properly.

The Church adds customs and feast days throughout her life. Do you think this is where the Church should, maybe on a local level first, add things like a new novena prior to All Saints, maybe even a period of fasting?

We already had fasting before All Saints until they took it away! Most of the great feast days were preceded by penitential days. For example, the vigil of Christmas was penitential, the vigil of the Assumption was penitential. The Vigil of All Saints as well, so traditionally the 31st is a day of penance.

What would you say about the power in the feasts. How should Catholics feel spiritually when it comes to our brethren in Heaven, the Church Triumphant?

Back to Halloween and the purpose of it. In the mystical revelations of Purgatory, it has parts, as the great Purgatory which is like Hell but with hope, then there is the second Purgatory, and then there is the threshold Purgatory. Those who should have gone to Hell but maybe had a deathbed conversion, those who’ve never prayed for the souls in Purgatory, they end up in the great Purgatory. 

When somebody’s in the great Purgatory, they can’t be helped by Masses and prayers until justice has been satisfied. Then once they’ve reached second Purgatory, then our prayers can help them. For those in threshold Purgatory, they’re often released through our prayers immediately and that’s all they need.

This understanding of emptying Purgatory on November 2nd was the reason for Halloween. That was the reason for Halloween. Because that’s the only day of the year when the souls in great Purgatory can benefit from our prayers and Masses. We know, too, that Saints have a greater efficacy on their feast days. Thirdly, Our Lady goes to visit the souls in Purgatory on certain days, Saturdays (for the sabatine privilege), Christmas, and the Assumption, and All Souls. Those are the days when she always goes down there and the souls in Purgatory say that as long as she’s there, they stop suffering.

There really is so much happening, spiritually speaking, during Halloween, and Allhallowtide as a whole. It seems like Catholics are not, currently, properly engaged with it.

Again, the anxiety of the demonic aspect around Halloween is working because people are not focused on any of this. They’re either hyper-focused on the demonic or, because they trivialize it and they think it’s fun, it awakens all sorts of unhealthy cure curiosity, or they worry about it and wring their hands and neither one of those is adequate.

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Learn more in Exorcising Halloween: A Guide to Sanctifying the Season, in which you’ll read these insights and those of many other interviews and abundant research on the topic of the sacred season of Allhallowtide.

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